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- on Sat 29 Aug 2009
- 11:01:53 PM UTC
....
Pretty old now but;
http://montanamenagerie.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...
Regards
Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net -
- on Sun 30 Aug 2009
- 11:08:41 AM UTC
Recently asked
catweezl recently asked me a similar question, so I'll use the PM I sent in response as a template (and I'll add some to it).
OK . . . here goes.
Why did I switch to Linux? Well . . . I had been toying with the idea for some time (just because I like messing with these things, and 'sperimenting), but never seemed to get around to it.
And then Microsoft really pissed me off . . . for two reasons.
1. They were pushing out automatic updates to IE8 under the guise of claiming it was "critical" (EDIT: Maybe it is if you use IE . . . I know you think it is g7w, but I don't use IE anyway AND DON'T EVEN USE WINDOWS ANYMORE . . . FF user . . . but from time-to-time I'd fire it up and play with it . . . definitely in a sandbox).
My view was that I would upgrade to IE8 in my own time, NOT Microsoft's time. That's one.
2. And this is the one that really pushed me over the edge. I had automatic updates set to "Notify only", and I'd choose whether or not to download them (To see first before I downloaded them if it was buggy . . . which has happened more than once. EDIT: And I think that's your method too, Athlonite).
What pissed me off was that Microsoft began to push out patches EVEN IF YOU HAD "NOTIFY ONLY, AND DON'T DOWNLOAD AUTOMATICALLY" selected. Microsoft claimed it was a server issue, limply saying that if the patch servers got overloaded, this could happen. (Excuse me, but I think Microsoft can afford to buy more servers!).
Anyway, it happened to me one time, and that WAS IT for me! Off to Linux I went.
Now, about Linux. It's a steep learning curve, and I'm still on it. But after about a week I began to catch on, and haven't looked back since.
There are two big advantages to me.
First, and foremost, it's a much more secure OS. That's because 1) It doesn't have enough market share to make it a target for the malware writers, consequently there's NO Linux viruses in the wild (there are a few "proof of concept" ones, but they only exist in a lab), and 2) You operate as a limited user, and administrative privileges are only granted temporarily (the "sudo" command . . . "sudo"="Super User Do" AND it can only be executed with a password). Consequently, if malware tries to install something, it doesn't have the privileges. It's similar to a LUA in Windows, except that's the way it is ALL the time. (EDIT: "sudo" gives you root privileges temporarily, and then reverts back).
And the other kewl thing about Linux is the "software repository". Instead of Googling tediously for software, ALL the Linux compatible software is right there in the "Universal Repository", and installing it is a breeze.
One thing that Linux won't run is Quicken, which is what I do my on line banking with (if you were a conspiracy theorist, you'd say that Microsoft and Quicken are in cahoots).
But there's an easy way around that. I run a virtual machine within Linux, and I have XP, and thus Quicken on it. So whenever I want to do my on line banking I just fire up the VM and NEVER leave Linux.
Oh . . . one more kewl thing. Linux can make images of your partitions WITHOUT using those expensive third party utilities like Norton Ghost and Acronis True Image. It can do it natively!
I've been using it for about a month now, and other than the VM with Quicken I am no longer tethered to M$.
The transition for about the first week is rough, but there's several VERY active forums, and most of them have a "beginners" section. I've gotten answers to my questions within 24 hours, and in most cases much less time.
It's very easy to install, and you don't have to leave the security blanket of Windows to try it. It will do a "dual boot" install and allow you to still pop in to Windows if you want.
For the first couple of weeks I had a dual boot, but now I'm completely Linux. No Windows partition at all.
If you want to give it a shot, I can give you some links to get you started. And as I said, you can try it without leaving Windows. If you decide you don't like it, you can easily dump it and go back to an exclusive Windows partition easily too.
That was the PM to catweezl.
Now let me add or expand on a few things specific to your questions:
After the first day of struggling with it, I was about to chuck it and go back to Windows. One of the things that frustrated me was that in Linux there's no such thing as an executable extension (.exe), which is something you pretty much rely on in Windows. In Linux, executables are just files with NO extension, and for me they were hard to find. But once I solved that problem, it was easy from there. (The "solution" was easy. 99% of the executables will start if you simply use their name along with the "sudo" command . . . for example, if you want to start the text editor, called "gedit" (similar to Notepad, but MUCH more feature rich) you just type the command "sudo gedit".
Alternatively, you can go to the folder where the gedit executable is stored (the "usr" folder, which I think stands for "user") and just double click on the file "gedit".
Finally, you can make a shortcut (launcher) to the executable on your desktop.
No need to do that for gedit, however, since it's already in the Applications>Accessories menu.
It helps if you get out of the Windows mindset, but for Windows refugees that's very difficult to do. For the first week or so, I kept looking for "the Windows way" of doing things and got very frustrated when I couldn't find it. Most things in Linux are VERY VERY different from what you're used to in Windows. That .exe thing really had me frustrated . . . I was lost without .exe's or something like them. Most Linux files DO NOT have extensions, and the ones that do are alien.
My "intermediate" stage, about week two, was the classic "Let's click on this and see what it does". Sort of like the eight scariest words in the English Language: "Is your seatbelt on? I'm gonna try something".
I messed up the system a few times. Well . . . I didn't mess up Linux itself (which is pretty hard to do, even for a noob), just my configuration. There was probably an easy fix for experienced users, but I ended up reinstalling Linux and starting over from scratch. I did that TWICE!
Now that I know how to make images (Linux's version of System Restore in Windows, except it's much more reliable), I can click away and if I screw things up I can revert to a stable configuration by just restoring the image.
Another added advantage of repositories is that you are notified of updates for ANY program that came from a repository (which is why you want to stick with programs from Linux repositories, instead of Googling for stuff that's NOT in the repositories . . . I strictly use repository programs for that reason). It's sort of like having a built in Secunia PSI or the FileHippo thing for updates.
I do indeed use it for my "every day" work, including building a website in FF using Joomla. Interestingly, an advantage that I've noticed is that now my OS "speaks" the same language as my host server . . . makes things a lot easier.
There are analogs to most Windows programs, and of course there are cross-platform programs too. IMHO, the Linux programs are much more feature rich than their Windows counterparts.
For example, I used to use Filezilla in Windows for my FTP transfers to my host. There's a program in Linux called "gFTP" that does a lot more than Filezilla. (Incidentally, there's a Linux version of Filezilla, but Linux users don't use it much because there's programs written for Linux that are much better . . . like gFTP).
Anyway, I'm glad I made the switch, though if you would have asked me in that first week, the answer would have been different (you were wise to wait a while). The key in learning Linux is to stick with it. There's no such thing as "instant gratification" there.
Windows is history.
(I will point out one disadvantage I've noticed though. Most sites give tips for Windows users. For example, I get a newsletter from How-to-Geek. 90% of the time, the tips are for Windows users . . . though HTG DOES have a Linux user section.)
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- on Sun 30 Aug 2009
- 05:11:32 PM UTC
re: I know you think it is g7w
Quick clarification:
1] I do not use IE, I have been Mozilla ever since Netscape came out. IE has always been something included with Microsoft OS's2] Windows security updates are *sigh* a requirement now-a-days, but I am lazy at that and opposed to monthly checking, I update 3-4 times a year; unless it critical
While I admit that IE7 was an improvement over IE6 and IE8 is slightly better than IE7... IE still sucks, but is the necessary evil for the Windows Update site.
Also, I keep Windows firewall = OFF, Windows restore = OFF, and Windows automatic updates = OFF and have had little problems.
As for updates in general, you were mad at MS for "sneaking" updates on you, but are comfortable with repository updates? What exactly is the difference other than vendors and operating system?
Concerning directory structure (directory is the real name, MS changed it to "folder" with W95), here's a quick cheat sheet.
-------
Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
- G7W -
- on Sun 30 Aug 2009
- 06:26:59 PM UTC
Excellent link...
Thanks for the cheat sheet link. I collect links about Linux. :D
~DragonMaster Jay, malware researcher,
Admin, helpmyos.com -
- on Mon 31 Aug 2009
- 09:18:35 AM UTC
Further clarification
"I do not use IE
Wasn't saying that you did, but I think I miscommunicated that (probably should have put a comma in there somewhere). When I said "I know you think it is" I was saying that you thought that the upgrade to IE8 was necessary.I got the distinct impression from one of your posts that you thought it was: "As for IE7 -> IE8 - it is a smart move". Maybe you didn't mean "necessary" though.
"What exactly is the difference other than vendors and operating system?"
There's a BIG difference.While the options for updates are basically the same:
Ubuntu has not yet forced an install of an update when I have "only notify" checked. With that checked, I then can either accept or deny the download. I had the "notify only" option checked in Windows, yet Microsoft DID attempt to download the update anyway. The issue is detailed here. It's happened to a lot of other people, as that article relates. An excerpt:
"I run a computer shop in Oregon, and I choose the option 'Notify me but don't automatically download or install them' for my personal and shop computers and most clients. I've seen Microsoft updates being installed at shutdown on several computers the last two weeks. I've double-checked those computers to make sure the appropriate option had been chosen for updates, and indeed it had been set to my standard mentioned above. Ticks me off royally."
That's the BIG difference.
And while a workaround for that issue may be just to turn automatic updates off (though that didn't work for some . . . you can read about it in that article), that isn't the point. The point is that Microsoft is behaving like spyware, installing stuff "silently"! That's what pissed me off.
As I said, so far Ubuntu hasn't done that. If it ever does. and I'm sure Microsoft will publicize that heavily, I'll get pissed again and be looking for another OS.
Finally, here's another "cheat sheet".
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- on Mon 31 Aug 2009
- 03:26:47 AM UTC
BobJam This is gonna be
BobJam
This is gonna be interesting....
Still reading through the Pdf file I downloaded form your reference link the other day..Q. Re: your comment -"I messed up the system a few times." and you had to reinstall Linux twice.....Was you running it standalone on your system or was this while you were testing it out (VM or Dual boot) ?
Catweezl
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- on Mon 31 Aug 2009
- 03:50:39 AM UTC
No
Unfortunately, wouldn't you know it, it was on my new machine which is entirely Ubuntu.
So, looking on the bright side, I did indeed become familiar with how to install/reinstall Ubuntu and partition a disk (which the Ubuntu install helps you through anyway).
One time, I even became familiar with the Ubuntu Rescue CD, which has a bunch of Ubuntu utilities and even has a GUI.
Once you go through the method, you realize in hindsight it's pretty user friendly . . . but the first time, it's rough. It's sort of like, "Oh yeah, now I see what that's for."
Read that pocket guide, over a couple of times even. Had I read it more closely, I wouldn't have had such a rough time the first time.
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- on Mon 31 Aug 2009
- 02:48:56 AM UTC
TUX
I have a small stuffed TUX on a bookshelf in my PC room, along with an empty tin of Penguins from long ago, back in the days when I used to program all through the night.
www.tuxfiles.org though old now, is still a good resource for various tutorials.
As for this image...
I'm not sure where I snagged it from, I've has it for a few years now, but Debian is a fairly secure Linux, though not as "friendly" as Ubuntu
right-click, view image for full size (800x600)
-------
Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
- G7W
Hey BobJam !!
OK, I think I waited long enough for you to get a good idea on how this Rogue Linux or Ubuntu is. (joke , don't mean to offend any of you Linux and friends users).
Don't get Mad at me for asking. I just thought that I left you enough time to evaluate your Linux flavor of the month. I know you switched because of some problems with Windows BUT, how much better is Linux. AND how does it differ from Windows. I have never tried Linux or it's Distros. I just don't have the need for it at this time. Can't say I will never give it a try but, for now , Windows is all I need.
BobJam , I don't want to make this a pissing match, just facts and differences. I also have to get my info. some how so, better to get it from hands on .
I won't say that I Never have problems with Vista OR XP for that matter, but, I can always get around or find a solution. Also , what about programs ?? Are there Much differences or can you use Any program in a straight forward manner (eg. Install and forget) How widely used is linux . I know that allot of companies rely on their server technology for the robustness of the product but, what about the operating systems themselves .
Could I use it say, for every day use in a working environment or is this still just for the Hobbyist.
Could you answer my questions and we will go from there. Who knows, IF you are a good enough salesman , you might even sell me on the idea. of dual booting.
Athlonite.
PS > Anyone wanting to join in and relay your thoughts and experiences WITH OUT any sarcasm or flaming other posters are welcomed to do so.
Your help is always needed.