General discussion

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New web site, old crime

hydrowaterpower.com

This is a scam; these devices do not work. Dennis Lee is currently being prosecuted for making the same claims this web site claims.

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More new-ish web sites for the same crime

hydrowaterpower.com
moneysavingdevice.com
alternativegassolutions.com
alternativegreensystems.com
GasConversionReviews.com
ozhydrocars.com
Improve-Gas-Mileage.Info
dry-cells.com
KleenEmissions.com
hydrogenator.us

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Scam

After looking at the website for five seconds, you can see how phoney it is.

We rate the websites, the WOT staff creates, and advertises the add-on, and together, we make it all happen.

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Latest news in the "water as fuel" scam

Yet more victims of the "hho" (oxyhydrogen) "water as fuel" scam and the Dennis Lee prosecution have stepped forward with their testimonies. Some of the victims paid around $400,000 for the "honor" of being robbed. Meanwhile, the web sites selling the same are increasing with new ones showing up every few days.

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Your the phoney

This site is not phoney....and the product works! We have used these generators on our family farm for 2 years. You are just a blowhard! That thinks you know everything!

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Scam scam scam

It also looks like the "Scanalert Hackersafe" icon is fake, as it says it was tested the first of January and doesn't have an actual link to McAfee's site.
Then again, I can't remember if McAfee Hackersafe sites have a link to McAfee.
Gah, I need sleep.

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Yet more web sites, same scam

HydroFuelGenerator.com
electricity4gas.com
HHOkitsDirect.com
burnhydrox.com
autoonhydrogenguide.com
hydro-extra.webs.com
l2hybrids.com
aquareactor.com
advancedhho.com
gasconversionkits.com
hho-car-kits.com
hhoexposed.com

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A funny example

I like this version of the scam:

waterpoweredcar.com

F***ing hilarious with its "pray for Obama" plea, all the while selling a device that doesn't work.

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The Jerks!

I AM FURIOS ABOUT THIS!

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FYI

Back in the mid to late '80's I met a guy named Stan Meyers (or was it Myers?) by mistake.

There was a meeting at a place I was working on a Saturday; I was in the shop building duct work for a large job, so I wasn't supposed to be there...

I was asked by my boss to stop what I was doing, too much noise, and join in the meeting.

This guy was advertising a water powered car and the use of hydrogen for other fuels such as home heating.

I am a skeptic, believe no one...

After all the talk which I considered BS the meeting ended up in the parking lot.
This guy was from Youngstown Ohio, or a suburb of, and we were in Canton, about an hours drive or so... He had this dune buggy, stripped dow VW but the engine wasn't quite the same. There was 1 tank for fuel, he drained it into cups for the men who attended the meeting, and drank what was in his - just water. He ran the engine till it died - out of fuel. Then he refilled the tank from a garden hose, started up his water engine and many were a bit amazed, skeptical, but amazed. Then he drove off in it. I never heard much about him until it was reported in the local news how he died from food poisoning with a group of oil executives, the only one in the party who suffered any sickness from the dinner. Looking at Wikipedia, this is mentioned as bogus info - but it's exactly what was mentioned on the news and in the papers. The thing about a wiki is that anyone can introduce and/or edit information; an easy way to rewrite history, if you will. If I wasn't there, I would have told my boss he was "full of it" had he mentioned the meeting to me the following Monday. There are things that current corporations do that are not in the interest of the environment, the people, or any other "cause" if it does not produce enough profit. Money is what drives many corporations. What would happen to the oil profits and all those investors, including many 401k plans if people could fuel their vehicles from the water out of their kitchen sink? Hydrogen is a clean and efficient fuel, not to mention "green" friendly. And as for "water power" being a bunch of crap, what about BMW's water car from 2006? Are they bogus too?
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/effi...

Granted a lot of these sites are scams, you'll find that anywhere and everywhere, even with juice machines and vitamins, but it doesn't mean that juice has no good qualities and that every juice site is a fraud.

You need to keep your mind open for new technology, if not... we would still be using Morse Code on a telegraph.
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Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
G7W {G.O.M}
http://g7w.net/

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Just a goddamn minute

What the hell is wrong with Morse Code :)

Don't be dissin my code

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Response to G7w

One of the things you have to keep in mind is that the best scams have SOME kind of truth behind them, at least enough to bamboozle people into believing. They have to play either on an inadequate understanding of the science involved, or a desire that the customer has, some kind of need or want that can serve to cloud their judgement enough to make them vulnerable to manipulation.

These products can play on anything from the need to belong, to exploitation of naturally erroneous modes of thinking, to appeals to 'higher causes' such as helping other people when you actually aren't helping anyone but the proponent of the scam...

For example psychics capitalize on the tendency of most people to be alert to synchronicity, and the confirmation biases which exist in every person (we tend to remember correlating events and forget all the billions of incidences in our day which don't COincide, and subsequently accept causal arguments unscientifically)... So when someone gullible rubs a crystal every day for a week, and wins $10, they credit the crystal for the win, ignoring the fact that every other day of the week they lost $10 playing the same game or something.

Similarly, religious fundamentalists exploit the often counter-intuitive nature of geological timeframes, and poor science education (which they actively try to retard further) in order to peddle their bronze-age mythologies.

Other unscientific beliefs crop up in areas where the truth is uncomfortable or confronting, such as exposing deceit and manipulation by the government in the events surrounding the 9/11 attacks - 6 of the 10 official 9/11 commissioners called for further investigation, and 3 recommended criminal charges be brought against those in the government and military who allowed the attacks to succeed, but that sort of information is suppressed and shouted down by people who want to continue in the false belief that their (sometimes) elected officials can be trusted.

Likewise, people want to believe in easy money (or saving thereof), as these devices play on... All the same, I wouldn't be surprised if the implications in your story are true - I'm sure there are a lot of people who would kill someone when there's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake, just in their own little piece of the company pie. I know I'd be tempted :p

Anyhoo I realize I'm waffling on a lot, I'll shush now ;) My YouTube page is www.youtube.com/Gliktch if anyone wants to access a lot of quality educational lectures and debates etc (not my own uploads, but rather playlists of excellent resources). :)

- Gliktch/Cheesetrap

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Compliments

My compliments for a very interesting post.

Your logic is impeccable.

Are you in the marketing biz? I ask because you seem to have a good handle on what motivates people to do certain things.

Too bad the people in Germany during the 30's didn't realize those things, or the Third Reich would never have happened (I'm reading Shirer's work right now and see the obvious connection).

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RE: Compliments

Well thanks for the kind reviews ;)

No, I don't work in marketing, though the first few years of my working life I was in sales. As a person with Asperger's Syndrome, I lack the abilities which most people naturally possess, to subconsciously analyse and respond to non-verbal communication (body language, voice tonal/pitch modulation and other prosodic information, facial expressions and so on), so I had to train myself to *consciously* analyse these behaviours in my day-to-day interactions with other people. Straight out of high school, I threw myself in the deep end and worked door-to-door sales for almost a year, as a kind of 'crash course' in face-to-face communication. Best thing I ever did, it got me started on the road to understanding people (including, most importantly, myself).

At the same time I also explored many related social conventions and the way various parts of society interact (commerce, the family, legislature, religion, etc). While I can't speak for all 'Aspys', I can say that at least some of us have trouble seeing the value or sense in things like pleasantries, taboos, advertising, and a number of other social conventions and constructs which are essentially ubiquitous in modern life. In some contexts (especially courtship, or touchy situations like funerals), common social conventions and prohibitions can be immensely frustrating and counter-productive to the mind of someone who abhors inefficiency and excessive emotional baggage. Okay, it's difficult to properly convey the point I'm trying to make there, but suffice to say that it is only after actively pursuing understanding of these things, that I am in a position to successfully operate and flourish in a social environment; I could just have easily been a hermit pumping out code from his basement but I decided I wanted a real life instead :P

So in a way I guess I can claim to have a better understanding of human motivation than some people, as I lack many of the automatic responses that 'normal' people exhibit, and thus have to actually think before responding to social stimuli. I of course still make plenty of stupid decisions, but I know WHY they were stupid ;)

I'm not sure that this insight would have headed off the Nazis, though - if the Stanley Milgram experiment showed us anything, it's that people tend to turn off their brains (or at least their sense of personal responsibility) when asked to do something by a person with a badge. So long as we have people trained to defer to authority (everything from a parent's "Because I said so!", to full-scale religious or military indoctrination), we will have problems with those people's psyches being hijacked for nefarious purposes and detrimental agendas.

Feel free to drop me a message on my YouTube if you would like to discuss any of these topics further; it seems to be where I spend most of my time these days, when I'm not working :)

- Gliktch

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re: Gliktch

The truth about scams is that they are nothing more than scams.

I went to a psychic once, my immediate remark to them was, "you already know why I'm here." They had no clue - needless to state my opinion of psychics.

religion - I'm more or less an atheist; religion fullfils a need for weak minded individuals who have the desire to be forgiven today for what they are about to do tomorrow; there is no invisible man in the sky who created everything but can not manage his money... (G.C. rip)

The only truth in politics is: there is no truth.

Easy money exists in one way — that penny you found on the street; but you need to ask yourself was the noticing, stopping, bending over, reaching down, grasping, picking up, looking at, placing in pocket... worth it?

My story was simply an account of an actual life event, there is no requirement to believe it - this is the internet.

;-)
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- G7W

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Careful

"religion fullfils a need for weak minded individuals who have the desire to be forgiven today for what they are about to do tomorrow"
While I pretty much agree with that specific statement (nice humor BTW), I wouldn't label all religious people as "weak minded" (don't know if that's what you intended).

Am not by any means a religious person myself, so I'm not defending them. But Jesuits, Thomas Aquinus, William F. Buckley Jr., and a few others I can't think of right now, are hardly "weak minded".

I think Gliktch/Cheesetrap was talking about Bible Thumping fundamentalists that promote things like "Intelligent Design" versus traditional evolution (or the morons that crashed into the World Trade Center and thought they would have 72 virgins to play with in the hereafter).

Richard Dawkins has some interesting counterarguments to that Intelligent Design stuff in his latest book.

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re: weak minded

the flock of sheep didn't sound quit right, so I went with weak minded instead - those who have a need to be led.
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WOT Services Ltd. - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
- G7W

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RE: Religious nonsense

I wouldn't label all religious people as "weak minded"

Agreed - smart people can believe all sorts of batsh!t crazy stuff. There are probably at least some near-geniuses out there who believe in orgone or out-of-body-experiences; acupuncture or chiropractics; demons or Dianetics... I think Dr. Michael Shermer said it best (I'm paraphrasing):

"Intelligent people are better at defending notions at which they have arrived by unintelligent means." - Why People Believe Weird Things

If you raised, say, 20 kids from birth with the constantly-reinforced notion that dancing particular ways can influence the weather (but only if you get it just right), then chances are even if they're all of genius IQ that at least a few of them will retain that belief into adulthood and perhaps their whole lives; especially if their peer group and authority figures unanimously support the erroneous concept. This is currently the case in tracts of the United States, where education systems have been usurped to push religious agendas and infect the next generation with the religion mindvirus. Memetic evolution in action...

So, in a nutshell, yeah - being smart does not convey immunity from things like corrupt information and confirmation biases. Especially if an individual is infected with a mindvirus when the intellectual immune system (critical thinking skills) is underdeveloped, as in children, or that system is temporarily depressed by tragedy, addiction, personal hardship or illness (exactly the times when religion tends to pounce).

I would also point out that before things like germ theory, debunking of geocentrism, space travel, evolution through natural selection, radiometric dating, and all the other monumental leaps in scientific knowledge that occurred in the past couple of centuries, it was possibly 'less stupid' to believe in certain things we know to be nonsense today. Now that we know so much about the workings of the immediate world we live in, however, we see the various gods either blink out of existence altogether, or shed their explanatory power bit by bit until they have retreated to amorphous, useless conjectures of 'higher powers' who only pop down to earth for the occasional cancer remission, lacking the traditional flamboyance associated with the mythological 'powers that be', since we actually know the causes of most natural phenomena now and have little need for gods.

This expansion of our collective knowledge forces gods to either adapt to become wispy notions of non-interventionist 'prime movers', or go the opposite route and claim things like creationism and divine medical intercession in the face of all the blatant evidence to the contrary, and fight militantly to maintain the ignorance and mis-education of their flocks.

I realize I'm rambling a bit, sorry :)

- Gliktch

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We usually check very few things directly...

Usually we employ two indirect tests
to check if a statement is true:

The external test: If a hear/read something, I assume that a million have heard it before me. If they didn't object, then I'm probably not genius enough to be wiser than a million. So, I don't have to check it, if I 'know' everybody else already have. Of course, this test can fail. No guarantee that everybody else didn't think exactly the same. Result: everybody 'know', yet nobody verified...

The internal check: If a hear/read something, I can ask myself if it 'makes sense'. Does the new piece fit the puzzle I already have in my mind. Of course this test is fallible too. No guarantee that something is true, just because it would be be nice. I remember a warning from a long gone history author: beware of myths, sometimes they can be brilliant, and yet utterly wrong...

Btw, religion usually passes both indirect tests, and the result: hundreds of religions and thousands of gods. But only one version of science. Imagine the condition of the world, if conditions were reversed...

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Water = H2 O

Its Simple, pass electric current through water to seperate the H2 from the O, use the Hydrogen to run the engine. Try it.

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Try it?

Just pass electricity through water? Might be simple but also deadly.

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More than one kind of current...

evilfantasy: "Just pass electricity through water?"

There's more than one kind of electricity; it's direct current at work here, not alternating. And you're right, it could be deadly. A mix of Hydrogen and Oxygen is quite explosive (remember Hindenburg..?) - one spark could be enough to ignite it all, so kids, don't try this at home, or elsewhere...

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re: Water

Water
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Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
- G7W

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man

Talk about a silly product...haha

All sites added to my blacklist and I will be dousing red eventually. :)

~DragonMaster Jay, malware researcher,
Admin, helpmyos.com

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All rated and commented.

All rated and commented. Thanks for the heads up on this randomness.

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Dihydrogen Oxide

I'm addicted to the stuff. I drink several liters a day and have no intention of stopping.

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DHMO

DHMO Facts
Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol

:-D
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Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
Thank you all
- G7W