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  1. User picture
    • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 03:01:17 AM UTC

    3 disgusting sites (CP) - and a rating dilemma

    I just received this disgusting spam mail:

    ""Dear Sir, Again and again we share our best vids to our dear customers, available only from e-mail, really COOL and HOT Children Porn! For webmasters, that want to become CP and Zoo affiliates, contact (omitted). If you have children content or you want to record some, please contact us..."

    The original email was longer, but as paul g and g7w formulated it:

    I WAS DISGUSTED TO SEE THAT POST,being a pearant myself that is not something i expected to read on a open forum,somebody take it off please...ASAP

    "that's in bad taste simply because these Forums are open to people of ALL AGES and since WOT does not have a "13 and over" requirement a 10 year old could be here, not as a member but simply as a visitor and the graphic phrases emphasized as quotation should NOT be there!"

    I'm sorry if I offended anyone with this disgusting spam mail; It wasn't my intention.
    I have now edited it, using g7w suggestion. However, I was offended myself by receiving such offers, and my first reaction was: this should be stopped asap!!!

    Then I remembered MysteryFCM's warning: "If you come across such sites, or are made aware of sites that *may* contain CP, DO NOT load them, under ANY circumstances. Instead they should be reported to appropriate authorities. Knowingly accessing such sites, even if the intentions are simply to confirm it does actually contain CP, is illegal in the vast majority of countries. As such, by doing so, you are opening yourself up to investigation by the authorities and the very real possibility of prosecution (again, doing so for investigation purposes is NOT an excuse that the authorities will allow you to use). Report it via the links above, and let the authorities confirm whether or not the site contains such content."

    So I did not visit them, thinking the spam mail was suffiecient evidence by itself. Then MysteryFCM replied with another warning: "posting their domain names to public forums, is covered under distribution, which is also illegal under CP laws"

    Ok, I hadn't thought about that, so I edited the post again and omitted the domains.

    Finally, quoting the mail was also too much, so I edited that again (when I woke up).

    Sorry if I offended anyone, but I was offended myself...

    However, this kind of sites is clearly a very special case, that is, now it is more clear. That mail appeared minutes before I was going to bed, so I wasn't much awake. And certainly not aware of the possible troubles involved.

    I'll agree with MysteryFCM: "As far as dangers, I'd actually recommend a sticky/blog post/newsletter article or some such, warning surrounding this issue."

    That sounds like a very good idea! But who can do it?
    I think I just have proved that I'm not the expert here...

    The final twist in this convoluted case: g7w actually visited these sites - and discovered that they weren't porn at all...?!? Now I'm really confused: was this a spam mix up? Or perhaps a parked domain? Rotating content? Or what? The domain names them self contradict that they were only about "financial freedom"...

    But so far the conclusion is this: If you get spam offering CP - don't visit them! Don't even mention them in an open forum, at least not in an unabridged version. Instead report them asap to the proper authorities, listed at the bottom...

    Sorry if I offended anyone, and another apology if this thread has become confusing. It was the last thing I did before going to sleep, somewhat delayed. I don't know how many times I have edited it. But now I'm late for the first appointment, so I'll have to resume when I get home later...

    Here is a relevant thread: www.mywot.com/en/forum/2655-child-porn-where-to-re...

    Location: Copenhagen, Denmark, Scandinavia, Europe. Languages: Danish, English (and a bit Norwegian and Swedish).

Comments:

  1. User picture
    • Xp54321 on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 03:11:09 AM UTC

    RED!

    All rated RED! I did not visit any of the sites. That's a disgusting piece of spam...

  2. User picture
    • MysteryFCM on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 03:18:26 AM UTC

    FYI

    I'd very strongly recommend removing the domain names from your post (posting their domain names to public forums, is covered under distribution, which is also illegal under CP laws).

    Regards
    Steven Burn
    Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
    it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net

    • User picture
      • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
      • 03:42:11 AM UTC

      How do we rate unpostable domains..?

      Instead of writing their doman names directly: see my latest ratings. According to MysteryFCM: "posting their domain names to public forums, is covered under distribution, which is also illegal under CP laws"

      I hope this indirect approach is okay, if not, let me know. I've also forwarded the rating dilemma to sami - untill I get a response I have omitted the domains from the spam mail...

      • User picture
        • MysteryFCM on Thu 16 Apr 2009
        • 03:47:43 AM UTC

        Re: How do we rate unpostable domains..?

        I actually recommend not doing. The main reason for this is obvious - you can't verify whether or not the content is indeed CP, without risking prosecution, and rating a site as having such, without verification, is damaging beyond repair.

        Instead, report it to the authorities, and report it to Sami/Esa (whilst they will likely also not be able to report it themselves, they should have contacts that can do such legally (alot of security companies that come across this type of thing regularly, have contacts in LE) - i.e. law enforcement contacts (if not, they need to get some)).

        Regards
        Steven Burn
        Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
        it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net

        • User picture
          • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
          • 03:56:41 AM UTC

          Thanks for the swift reply...

          Ok, that sounds like sound advice; so I need to removed my ratings too?
          Sigh, what a convoluted way of doing things, but alas...

          Ok. I'll report them directly and untill I hear from sami, esa etc
          the domains are omitted completely, here and there...

          PS: I think cp sites have been mentioned before, in earlier threads;
          perhaps a good idea to make the dangers more public in this forum..?

          • User picture
            • MysteryFCM on Thu 16 Apr 2009
            • 04:02:20 AM UTC

            ...

            If you are certain of their content, then you need'nt worry about those you have already rated.

            As far as dangers, I'd actually recommend a sticky/blog post/newsletter article or some such, warning surrounding this issue.

            Regards
            Steven Burn
            Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
            it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net

            • User picture
              • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
              • 04:25:23 AM UTC

              Sites reported now

              Ok, I have now reported these scum sites to proper authorities;
              let's hope these disgusting domains get suspended soon...!

              "a sticky/blog post/newsletter article or some such, warning surrounding this issue."

              Sounds like a good idea writing more about it, before
              someone unknowingly steps over the edge.
              How about you..?

              • User picture
                • MysteryFCM on Thu 16 Apr 2009
                • 04:36:34 AM UTC

                I'll ...

                ... leave it to the more qualified and better writers ;o)

                Regards
                Steven Burn
                Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
                it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net

  3. User picture
    • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 03:44:53 AM UTC

    More shit like this..?

    I just noticed an earlier post by g7w: www.mywot.com/en/forum/2655-child-porn-where-to-re...

    One of the domains have been suspended earlier, as a variation. Unfortunately there could be more out there, it seems like WS domains are popular..? Could be worth checking - but remember, do not load such sites..! And according to MysteryFCM: do not even post the domains...

  4. User picture
    • Anonymous on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 04:36:04 AM UTC

    Horrible stuff

    The Spam mail you just received is absolutely disgusting.
    Only a suggestion on my part, to the WOT Team, is it possible to have a Forum Header dedicated to sites that are to be investigated? Then maybe the sites in question could have a special rating, for example "under investigation or Reported to Authorities?

    Rgrds
    lhart

  5. User picture
    • phantazm on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 05:00:32 AM UTC

    Reported 2

    I've also reported it to abuse@Mail.ru - and got this back:

    ***This message was created automatically by mail-delivery software. Do not reply to this message.***

    You request was received at 16.04.2009 08:51. It was assinged the following ID: «CP report»

    Please, do not change the subject and your request ID in your replies to this message. It takes up to 5 days to process your request. We will contact you as soon as possible.

    Thank you!
    --------------------------------
    Sincerely,
    mail support service
    Mail.ru

  6. User picture
    • c۞g on Thu 16 Apr 2009
    • 07:42:03 AM UTC

    grabs a chair and sits down...

    Just got to WOT, noticed I had a PM directing me halfway through this thread, but since the entire thread is "new" since my last visit, I started at the top and must say it's confusing...

    The initial post discusses pr0n, explicitly I might add, and IMO that's in bad taste simply because these Forums are open to people of ALL AGES and since WOT does not have a "13 and over" requirement a 10 year old could be here, not as a member but simply as a visitor and the graphic phrases emphasized as quotation should NOT be there!

    @ phantazm
    could you please edit it by copying this instead?
    "Dear Sir, Again and again we share our best vids to our dear customers, available only from e-mail, really COOL and HOT Children Porn!
    ...
    For webmasters, that want to become CP and Zoo affiliates, contact (omitted).
    If you have children content or you want to record some, please contact us."

    This is all we really need to see, isn't it?

    Now the source; there is none!
    Why bring this up without a site?

    Digging around I found some sites related to this thread:

    youngvideo.ws
    displays this page

    erogay.ws and euromix.ws
    both display this page

    None of which are pr0n, but they are scams and I've rated and commented as such.

    More on IP: 91.202.63.107
    eropays.ws AKA eropays.com AKA ero-pays.com
    translated RU to EN

    This site: ep-help.com
    translated RU to EN
    handles "help" via charged SMS messages for:
    sms-ocean.ws pr0n!
    young-video.ws results with:Domain Terminated for Spamming
    euromix.ws

    Others:
    youngs-video.com - pr0n!
    erogayxxx.com - pr0n!
    euromixxx.com - pr0n!

    @ MysteryFCM
    It sure would be nice to see each of the domain names listed in this reply along with the IP listed in hpHosts :-)

    Links direct to WOT Scorecards, except the two translations - Rate all of them RED
    -------
    Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
    WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
    Thank you all
    G7W {G.O.M}
    http://g7w.net/

    • User picture
      • paul g on Thu 16 Apr 2009
      • 09:07:31 AM UTC

      grabs a chair and sits down...

      Hi,g7w..I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT,I WAS DISGUSTED TO SEE
      THAT POST,being a pearant myself that is not something i expected to read on a
      open forum,somebody take it off please...ASAP...

      THANKYOU........p..................

    • User picture
      • MysteryFCM on Thu 16 Apr 2009
      • 11:36:04 AM UTC

      ...

      Thanks for letting me know. I couldn't check them, so couldn't include them. As they've been checked now however, both by yourself, and a friend, and found not to contain such, I've included them in hpHosts with the PSH classification.

      "Now the source; there is none!
      Why bring this up without a site?"

      Because posting such in public, without veryifying they DO NOT contain CP, is illegal (and is covered under distribution). The fact they don't is irrelevant - the suggestion and thus the risk, was present (the motto for this kind of site should always be - if in doubt, pass it to the authorities, they can verify it legally, without risk of prosecution).

      Regards
      Steven Burn
      Ur I.T. Mate Group / hpHosts
      it-mate.co.uk / hosts-file.net

  7. User picture
    • PHung on Fri 17 Apr 2009
    • 11:03:22 PM UTC

    How to rate CP sites

    Dear WOT,

    Getting CP sites shut down and these scum arrested is important. However I understand why we should not visit such sites even to investigate and red circle them. Still it does create a dilemma, how can we convict a site if we can't see the evidence. I suggest that we recruit a person who is a competent authority who can examine the site and make sure WOT blocks access. This requires two things: One, the recruitment of anti-CP police as WOT members. Two, providing them with an account that can quickly block CP sites without needing many people to rate them.

    Yours

    PHung

    • User picture
      • c۞g on Sat 18 Apr 2009
      • 12:01:32 AM UTC

      Agree

      I agree.
      WOT should have "special acounts" for and recruit Law Enforcement from all over the planet.

      But the "catch 22" is...
      I open my Gmail which displays valid good site with green rating symbol, but through XSS I am redirected to 8year-old-sex.com I have now, involuntarily visited a valid CP site. My IP is logged on their severs as well as their domain is logged with my ISP. I should report this through many possible methods, but the fact that in reporting, I must provide personal identifiable information, so now I'm "busted" as a "kiddie porn freak." So... WOT recruits Law Enforcement, they red flag valid CP sites... here's the other "catch 22" - WOT needs to record them as Low Rated domain so there is a Scorecard available, wouldn't that card be "illegal" just like displaying the CP.com domain name in a forum or blog?

      -------
      Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
      WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
      Thank you all
      G7W {G.O.M}
      http://g7w.net/

      • User picture
        • Sami on Sat 18 Apr 2009
        • 12:27:45 AM UTC

        Re: Agree

        there is a Scorecard available, wouldn't that card be "illegal"

        Wait a minute, what kind of a twisted police state has laws that say it's illegal to talk about a website that may have illegal content? By that definition, all search engines would be illegal too.

        • User picture
          • c۞g on Sat 18 Apr 2009
          • 04:39:14 AM UTC

          from what I've gathered

          looking up,
          posting their domain names to public forums, is covered under distribution, which is also illegal under CP laws

          Quoting from here
          "If you come across such sites, or are made aware of sites that *may* contain CP, DO NOT load them, under ANY circumstances. Instead they should be reported to appropriate authorities. Knowingly accessing such sites, even if the intentions are simply to confirm it does actually contain CP, is illegal in the vast majority of countries. As such, by doing so, you are opening yourself up to investigation by the authorities and the very real possibility of prosecution (again, doing so for investigation purposes is NOT an excuse that the authorities will allow you to use). Report it via the links above, and let the authorities confirm whether or not the site contains such content."

          Then there is this:partial quote
          Unfortunately, there is no way to deal with these, other than to report them based on suspicion as UK and US law (not sure about anywhere else), does not allow for researchers/verification, unless the person doing such, is directly associated with law enforcement, and even then, only certain sections of LE, are authorised to deal with this kind of site.
          ...

          Which has led me to the "catch 22"
          how do I know a site has CP?
          by the site name? - no
          by psychic abilities? - no
          by visiting? - maybe; first it must be a porn site, then.. what if no evidence of CP on front page? do I lurk for every mage trying to find CP? no so what do I do? rate it, maybe comment as well and be on my way. Could it contain CP? maybe, but I personally am not "hanging around to find out" So what is there to report?
          Then there's that 1 or 2 lowely site that IS CP do I rate it? no why? I'm not hanging around... Do I report it? Not if those previous quotes are correct; I just quietly go on my way...
          -------
          Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
          WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
          Thank you all
          G7W {G.O.M}
          http://g7w.net/

  8. User picture
    • logicman on Sat 18 Apr 2009
    • 01:40:39 AM UTC

    Lawful excuse

    From time to time I come across CP sites. When I do, I report them to the proper authorities immediately.

    My protection in law is that I have a 'lawful excuse'. If I witness a crime and report it, in what way can I be held to have acted illegally? If a web site engages in any criminal activity whatsoever, I can only know, rather than just believe it, if I check my facts. Whilst I might report vague suspicions, this causes delay. A CP site reported by me as definitely illegal is out of Google search results almost instantly, and often ISP blocked within 10 minutes.

    The law against downloading is covered by my sandbox. When I delete the sandbox, every last trace is gone - I have downloaded nothing into my physical computer.

    But I would rather the ISPs stopped this themselves.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Protect and Surf.

    • User picture
      • c۞g on Sat 18 Apr 2009
      • 04:43:04 AM UTC

      nice connections; logical excuse

      A CP site reported by me as definitely illegal is out of Google search results almost instantly, and often ISP blocked within 10 minutes.
      Nice connections.

      Now I know where I'm sending my CP suspicions... I'll PM them to you.
      Logicman excuse :-)
      -------
      Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
      WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
      Thank you all
      G7W {G.O.M}
      http://g7w.net/

    • User picture
      • PHung on Sat 18 Apr 2009
      • 07:51:15 AM UTC

      So you can be...

      Dear logicman,

      So you can be the unofficial WOT person to pass any CP suspicions to.

      Yours

      PHung

  9. User picture
    • paul g on Sat 18 Apr 2009
    • 05:51:58 AM UTC

    3 disgusting sites (CP) - and a rating dilemma

    Hi,phantazm.thankyou for your post and editing the offending wording.
    I never open any email that looks dodgy or suspect as i was told even doing this now
    you could get a virus or something..

    Thanks................cheers..............p.............

  10. User picture
    • cotojo on Sat 18 Apr 2009
    • 11:38:31 AM UTC

    CP

    The problem is that it is such a grey area, users can unwittingly come across an adult site that contains CP and not even be aware of it.

    If there any doubts then keep well clear. I don't see that rating the site itself is a problem and reporting it to the appropriate authorities, but also many of these lie outside of UK and US jurisdiction, ie: .ru

    This in no way implies that all .ru sites are bad as many are good sites just as .com, .co.uk and so on but users need to exercise extreme caution if they come across any site that may contain CP and more often than not, a user would not be aware of it unless they entered the site itself, which makes it harder to ascertain whether it contains CP or not.

    Because of the laws in the UK, I keep my distance and report any suspected sites :-)

    Colin
    http://freepcsecurity.co.uk
    "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles with it" - Winston Churchill

  11. User picture
    • phantazm on Sun 19 Apr 2009
    • 05:52:25 PM UTC

    Contra intuitive

    It is a bit ironic that the company behind WOT is called "Against Intuition", because this area of the net is quite contra intuitive. Normally we should visit first and rate later. Normally we should document by links or screendumps or quoting the spam mail.

    But not if it's CP. Here it should be reported on suspicion only, as you cannot legally verify it. Why don't WOT include an automatic button: Click here to report CP in your region of the world. Such sites should be suspended asap - why not let anyone do it by a single click. Other nasty subcategories might deserve the same treatment..?

    • User picture
      • c۞g on Sun 19 Apr 2009
      • 06:37:56 PM UTC

      re: contra intuitive

      why not let anyone do it by a single click
      To my understanding, here in the USA, you cannot anonymously report child pornography suspected websites.

      Now...
      If WOT could get set up as an authorized "reporting agency"
      then this would be a splendid idea, but there is one caveat:
      How to control "clicked reporting" against misuse; separating genuine reports from facetious ones.
      -------
      Against Intuition - gives us safety through Web of Trust.
      WOT Community - gives us security through unity.
      Thank you all
      G7W {G.O.M}
      http://g7w.net/

  12. User picture
    • logicman on Sun 19 Apr 2009
    • 08:33:16 PM UTC

    Re: How to control against misuse.

    Accept reports from long-trusted users.
    Put other reports in a program - multiple reports pop to the top of the list.
    Plus - random selection of a few sites with low report scores to determine percentage of false reports.
    There's not that many sites to deal with - the authorities react pretty swiftly in most countries - commonly by tracking e-payments.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Protect and Surf.

    • User picture
      • BobJam (not verified) on Sun 19 Apr 2009
      • 11:09:38 PM UTC

      Similar

      Like the award of the mass rating tool.

      • User picture
        • phantazm on Sun 19 Apr 2009
        • 11:10:49 PM UTC

        Echo...

        Was just going to mention it...

  13. User picture
    • joze on Tue 09 Feb 2010
    • 07:37:18 PM UTC

    porn reporting

    i like the idea of "one click"reporting thru WOT!i don't live in the UK..but ,i believe in making the WEB safer for ALL!we are 30million strong!we out number the porn sites six(6) to one(1)!victory is ours!it's nice to feel like a winner.

    • User picture
      • Kraftwerk on Tue 09 Feb 2010
      • 08:06:27 PM UTC

      victory is ours?

      That´s a nice idea. There is a discussion in Germany going on whether sites with child porn contents should be blocked with a sign or not. Of course that would help a little bit, as a red rating would help a little bit. Of course the deletion of a site is even better, beause the content on the site can not be spread. But don´t forget they can get a new domain quickly!!!!!we have WON when there´s no child porn left on the web and no child is abused anymore ...

      Blueberrycake Level Member of the WOT Community